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Warrant Officers and OCS

Making the decision between OCS and WOCS, as well as other related information.
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NRHS
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Warrant Officers and OCS

Postby NRHS Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:54 am

Per MILPER msg 14-219 dated 7 Aug 14, active duty Warrants Officers may NOT submit an OCS application until further notice. This will have a major impact regarding Aviation Warrant Officers who positioned themselves in becoming an RLO and remaining in the aviation branch as their only option. Peacetime is in effect folks and it won't take prisoners.
Last edited by NRHS on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PhantomWarrior Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:22 pm

Some overlap with the general thread on that MILPER here:

http://armyocs.com/modules.php?name=For ... c&p=331081

I'll leave this one open though since it's purely warrant related and may be a useful reference for future warrants and warrant hopefuls.
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Postby zVo Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:55 am

I am one of those warrant officers that wanted to cross over to "the dark side." I went street-to-seat with the intent of developing into a strong aviator and then going to OCS if I decided to make the Army a career. I have got 4 years in and will be done with my degree NLT January 2016, it's very frustrating that this got pushed out.

I simply don't understand the intent behind this. I've heard someone say it was to prevent warrant officers who wouldn't promote to CW3 or CW4 from staying in. First of all, if you're not gonna make the 50-60% promotion cut from W2 to W3 or 3 to 4, why would they even be considered for OCS? Ridiculous.
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Postby dpar Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:56 pm

I simply don't understand the intent behind this.
I'm sure it has Zero to do with the promotion potential of CW3's to CW4's and has everything to do with the total monetary costs involved.
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Postby zVo Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:21 pm

Total monetary costs, as in total monetary costs to train a warrant officer in his or her MOS, track (if aviation), schools, and so forth? That makes sense to me insofar that they are vacating a seat that another warrant officer needs to be filled and trained in. The Army, however, isn't losing out on experience completely by promoting a warrant to the O-ranks.
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Postby dpar Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:58 pm

. The Army, however, isn't losing out on experience completely by promoting a warrant to the O-ranks.
As much as I'd like to agree with you, the benefit is minimal at best. While there is no doubt that I am the best officer in the Army and a former warrant, name one other famous officer who was a warrant before commissioning. Now name a half dozen.

My point is that by the time an officer has been in 5-10 years there's not much argument to be made that one set of experience or prior qualification produces a better officer than any other. Add to the fact that few of them will remain much past 20 years or promotion to LTC, and the long term value is hard to argue.
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Postby DWALT2510 Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:56 am

As an aviation RLO myself, I think the Army is missing out by not allowing Warrant Officers to attend OCS.

For an ROTC or OCS grad, it's easy to "keep up" with the Warrant Officers in flight school regarding both technical and tactical proficiency. But when you get to an operational unit, the admin consumes an LT's life. You begin to see that discrepancy in proficiency between the RLO and the WO. Granted, I made Pilot-in-Command before many of the junior Warrant Officers who came to the unit around the same time as me. But I see a ton of my RLO peers go to their first staff position and fall off the horse because they only get their minimums and are treated like the red-headed step child as a staff aviator. All the while, the WO's are out there flying and learning the mission--becoming masters of their craft.

Ultimately, the onus to stay proficient and try to remain on par with that WO is on the RLO. But it's extremely hard when you're working long enough hours already, then you have OPD books shoveled onto your plate by the command, insert additional responsibilities to include family/spouse here. You start to wonder--"at what point do they think I actually have the time to even try to study aviation?" All things considered, if you have a WO who understands the mission both on paper and in the aircraft, and they have to desire to be a leader of Soldiers, then I believe they should be allowed to apply to OCS. With their knowledge of the mission and extensive experience in the bird, the only thing they have left to master is the leadership/administrative role. And seeing as many of the WO's were prior NCOs, they generally understand how to motivate Soldiers. They have an all-encompassing skill set which prepares them to excel as Army leaders. They've seen the picture from nearly every angle.

I'm sure some in aviation will disagree with me, and I'm not saying all WO's can be leaders. A couple of them are the laziest sack-of-potatoes you'll ever meet. But there are some great ones out there that would make outstanding Officers.
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Postby NRHS Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:22 am

zVo

Milper Msg 14-219 expires on 31 Dec 15. As we all know, everything in the Army is subject to change at a moment notice. Excluding WO from OCS may have been a knee jerk reaction to the Aviation Restructuring Initiative (ARI) that's in progress right know. Fewer Lt aviation billets for the near future with the divestment of the OH-58D/OH-58C/TH-67.

One of the policy changes in the MSG, in which I agree with, is no more than 5 years of active duty service. That means you must be selected for Major in making retirement. Making Capt is quite easy with over a 90% selection rate. Making Major in the PEACE TIME Army will be quite interesting in the future.

Let the dust settle on ARI and the newer policy may be rescinded in favor of the Aviation Warrant Officer. By the way, is your GPA 3.0 or higher? That's one of the requirements for branching aviation in OCS since you do not have your degree yet.
Last edited by NRHS on Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dpar Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:26 am

DWALT,

I see your point but unless the AV community says that it's rank and file officers are not capable of leading the organization without some of these WO to OFF converts then there is only room for a discussion of "nice to haves" which are quickly edged out by budgetary concerns.

I'd be willing to bet there are countless examples of units with no former warrants in their ranks that excel in their mission and accomplishments. If this is true then there's little to your argument.

With that said, my previous experience as a warrant had made me a better officer than I would have been without that experience. I'm sure every firmer warrant would agree. But world we as a cohort have been "good enough" officers workout that experience? Probably so.

Think LTC Frailer's references to a self serving instituion. The army places little value on what a Soldier "should be allowed" when tough decisions are at hand.
Do not bother to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself. --William Faulkner
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NRHS
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Postby NRHS Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:24 am

Milper Msg 15-270 dated 8 Sep 15 rescinded Milper 14-219. 2 points of interest that caught my attention in changes.

1. Active duty Warrant Officers are now NOT excluded in applying for OCS.

2. No mention of the maximum time in service prior to applying, other than maximum age. I expect that will be clarified in the near future
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Postby Jherm Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:25 pm

An AV WO could always try out for the 160th. The pay that those guys get from AIP and ACP make up for the pay gap between a RLO and WO. Plus, they enjoy high promotion rates relative to the non-ARSOA AV WOs.

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