Need Site Support?

Please contact the staff through the site's Contact Us form.

Has anyone been a BN/Bridage/DV PM?

User avatar
ChrisMan
2LT
2LT
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:00 am
Contact:

Has anyone been a BN/Bridage/DV PM?

Postby ChrisMan Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:05 pm

I'm finishing up my PL time, and I'm supposed to move over to be a brigade PM

Does anyone have any experience doing that job? I am not really sure what to expect and I haven't been able to get in touch with the current guy in the spot since he's just about to return from deployment.
DStephens
CPT
CPT
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:00 pm
Contact:

Postby DStephens Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:20 pm

What does PM stand for? Project Manager? What branch?
User avatar
forcedcobra
CPT
CPT
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:00 pm
Contact:

Postby forcedcobra Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:27 am

I did two years in an IBCT. Drop me a message!
User avatar
ChrisMan
2LT
2LT
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:00 am
Contact:

Postby ChrisMan Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:30 am

What does PM stand for? Project Manager? What branch?
Provost Marshal, ever since they moved the MP Companies out of the BCTs, they have just had 2 MPs at BDE level. Not sure about BN leve.
User avatar
dpar
Retired Officer / Mentor
Retired Officer / Mentor
Posts: 8084
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:00 am
Location: Pineland
Contact:

Re: Has anyone been a BN/Bridage/DV PM?

Postby dpar Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:12 am

I'm finishing up my PL time, and I'm supposed to move over to be a brigade PM

Does anyone have any experience doing that job? I am not really sure what to expect and I haven't been able to get in touch with the current guy in the spot since he's just about to return from deployment.
If you're a PM and a LT on a BCT staff then your job will be dictated more by local personalities than any job description.

First, off, the BCT PM is a fairly new position and few BCT staff officers really know what an MP does anyway. Second, on a normal Garrison installation your role in actual policing will be to provide troops for rotational duty so there's nothing for you to do, especially since one of the better PLs from the installation was probably selected to fill the PL slot. Lastly, there's tons of work to be done that only requires a warm smart body to fill. Don't be surprised if your BCT staff tries to push you into a "random staff officer" role.

Now, how can you influence this? First, decide whether you want to be a BCT staff officer or a BCT PM. You can't really know all the pros and cons until you land in that unit but you can be aware of the entry approach you take.

This is how I'd approach it. Realize I had about 18 years in the Army, 5 of which were as a warrant officer, and 1 year as a PL when I was in your shoes.

1. Ask to speak with the MP BDE XO. Yup, I'd go right to the top. Generally speaking, and from my experience, this should be a nerve racking experience for you but it will get you talking to the right guy. Random LT's and CPTs on the installation probably have advice on culture, maybe even have some idea of who you'll be working with, but they probably lack the insight into what you really need to know. I'd ask that MP BDE XO who I'd really be working for and what the MP BDE has to do with my job. If he says the MPs have a lot to do with it then you're going to have some top cover and MP type flavor to your job. If he says the BCT controls all then you're probably going to be a BCT staff officer. See where the conversation goes. He may put you in contact with other PMs, the one you're replacing, or maybe even the BCT staff for further conversations.

2. Figure out what the PM job is supposed to be. What are the tasks, missions, and areas of expertise you're supposed understand. Once again your BCT XO can help. Ask what the MP BDE sees as the left and right limits and scope of work of a PM. This is really really important because we're talking about how much influence the MP Corps has on defining these roles vs just giving up officers to BCT staffs. This has been a topic of conversation for almost 10 years in the MP community. This may well start with reading and studying your 4-5 base MP doctrinal manuals. If you can't speak MP then you'll never be taken seriously as an MP. Also, learn as best you can BCT staff operations. This probably means digging into the MDMP a whole lot more than OBC or the CCC ever took you. What I'm saying is that you need to look and sound like an authority on integrating MP operations into a BCT. If you can't do that, then you're just a young officer getting some experience which will serve you later.

Most importantly, whatever job you're given, Own it. If you walk in as a whipping boy then that's all you're ever going to be on that staff.
Do not bother to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself. --William Faulkner
User avatar
ChrisMan
2LT
2LT
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:00 am
Contact:

Re: Has anyone been a BN/Bridage/DV PM?

Postby ChrisMan Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:51 pm

Most importantly, whatever job you're given, Own it. If you walk in as a whipping boy then that's all you're ever going to be on that staff.
Thank you for the advice sir. We just have our BN here on post for all the LE and MP support work.

I'll see if I can tap some of the BN Staff to see how they envision a successful PM on this post. The S3 was critical of the guy in the position now, so I may have the chance to learn from his mistakes.

Also, not sure if there is much of a distinction for my position, but I'm actually going to a Sustainment Brigade.
User avatar
dpar
Retired Officer / Mentor
Retired Officer / Mentor
Posts: 8084
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:00 am
Location: Pineland
Contact:

Re: Has anyone been a BN/Bridage/DV PM?

Postby dpar Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:50 pm

Most importantly, whatever job you're given, Own it. If you walk in as a whipping boy then that's all you're ever going to be on that staff.
Thank you for the advice sir. We just have our BN here on post for all the LE and MP support work.

I'll see if I can tap some of the BN Staff to see how they envision a successful PM on this post. The S3 was critical of the guy in the position now, so I may have the chance to learn from his mistakes.

Also, not sure if there is much of a distinction for my position, but I'm actually going to a Sustainment Brigade.
Yeah, I forgot. The Sustainment BDE's stood up after my time. We just called it an overinflated HHC back then.

Anyway, the BN S3 is critical then maybe that's your guy. Ask for a desk side chat with your current BN S3. Ask him what the duties and expectations are, what the right and left limits may be, and what he would consider a successful stint in the job. Don't be shy about this. Don't be shy at all. Ask exactly what your BN expects from you and how that could be measured.
Do not bother to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself. --William Faulkner
User avatar
forcedcobra
CPT
CPT
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:00 pm
Contact:

Postby forcedcobra Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:00 pm

It was a tough learning curve for me and the difficult part of being the PM is it's different from unit to unit and deployed and in Garrison so one person's experience will be different than the next. Much of what DPAR wrote applies and I would also add understanding the process. Know what your BDE's mission is, what you bring to the fight as a SB, what you bring to them as the SME on most things MP, and how to make your organization a better one. You don't work for the MP's anymore, you work for the BDE Commander and his team. An easy win up front is to understand 4833's and ensure you're not delinquent. Go to the working groups, attend all the meetings, make sure your section isn't out of the loop, etc. Doing this job is going to open your eyes to the bigger picture so take it all in.
User avatar
Herewulf
CPT
CPT
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:00 pm
Contact:

Postby Herewulf Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:40 pm

What does PM stand for? Project Manager? What branch?
One of these things is not like the others.. :P

@ChrisMan: I would encourage you to leverage your position as best as possible to educate your HQ and down trace units on MP affairs that affect them. They won't have much idea of MP capabilities and will be mostly focused on their primary mission. Sometimes it really counts though.

One anecdote that I can provide is from being a PL in an MP Company (CS) attached to a BCT for an NTC rotation. From my perspective, their PM was completely ineffective in injecting any MP knowledge into the BCT's planning. Both the organic MP PLT and our entire Company were relegated to base defense in the rear. Yes, a waste of our talents but someone had to do it.

However, one of the real serious failures was in handling detainees. We were also tasked with operating a DHA. During the planning conference the NTC cadre instructed all the maneuver Company Commanders on documentation requirements for handling detainees and I even personally gave a brief as part of it. Despite all that, we still had a batch of HVT detainees show up with zero documentation. The BDE CDR himself was very interested in the intel that they would provide and was furious that we were about to release them. However, we were violating the Geneva Convention by holding them and the OCs weren't having it. End result: The bad guys were let go back into the wild and provided no information. All because the grunts[1] simply didn't fill out the right forms.

[1] Full disclosure: I am a former grunt.
Delta Company, Class 003-12
User avatar
JB
CPT
CPT
Posts: 1352
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:00 am
Contact:

Re: Has anyone been a BN/Bridage/DV PM?

Postby JB Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:52 pm

Most importantly, whatever job you're given, Own it. If you walk in as a whipping boy then that's all you're ever going to be on that staff.
Thank you for the advice sir. We just have our BN here on post for all the LE and MP support work.

I'll see if I can tap some of the BN Staff to see how they envision a successful PM on this post. The S3 was critical of the guy in the position now, so I may have the chance to learn from his mistakes.

Also, not sure if there is much of a distinction for my position, but I'm actually going to a Sustainment Brigade.
Their whole focus is going to be moving cargo within their AO. Good starting point would learning how Movement Control Battalions/Movement Control Teams work as this really goes into the MP side, route clearances, TCPs ect. Getting white/green convoys from point A to B.

There's probably going to be fair amount of physical security stuff.

Is this actually a PM slot or physical security officer? A lot of sustainment type battalions and above, the slot is for a physical security officer.
User avatar
Dibbs31
CPT
CPT
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 11:00 pm
Contact:

Postby Dibbs31 Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:30 am

I work in a sustainment brigade HQs and the 31A/31B are both in the S3 writing orders like everyone else. They may occasionally pass down an AT/FP related email that was sent from higher but otherwise have the same duties as the 90A sitting next to them.
User avatar
Jherm
CPT and Moderator
CPT and Moderator
Posts: 2751
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:00 am
Location: SOAR
Contact:

Postby Jherm Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:30 pm

Brigade PMs are notorious for being just another staff wienie in the BDE 3 shop. But you know what? They are in the same boat as the token BDE... AV, ADA, CM, and IO guys.

This is especially so when talking about being the BDE PM for a Sustainment BDE. I recommend trying to get out of the assignment. Sure, you could apply yourself and learn some general big Army "good stuff" (orders process, plans at the BDE level, etc.), but how critical do you think the BDE PM is for a Sustaintment BDE? For any BDE really, but especially in a Sustainment BDE.

What's your MP BN? I could do a query in TOPMIS and see what their strength is. At least that way you would know if you're being sent away because your BN is simply over strength and they have to make room for new blood, or if you're being voted off the island.
User avatar
ChrisMan
2LT
2LT
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:00 am
Contact:

Postby ChrisMan Mon May 23, 2016 11:29 am

Brigade PMs are notorious for being just another staff wienie in the BDE 3 shop. But you know what? They are in the same boat as the token BDE... AV, ADA, CM, and IO guys.

This is especially so when talking about being the BDE PM for a Sustainment BDE. I recommend trying to get out of the assignment. Sure, you could apply yourself and learn some general big Army "good stuff" (orders process, plans at the BDE level, etc.), but how critical do you think the BDE PM is for a Sustaintment BDE? For any BDE really, but especially in a Sustainment BDE.

What's your MP BN? I could do a query in TOPMIS and see what their strength is. At least that way you would know if you're being sent away because your BN is simply over strength and they have to make room for new blood, or if you're being voted off the island.
I was in the 93D MP BN on Bliss, sir. I am pretty sure that they've got a ton of extra LTs around, at least that's what the Sergeants Major and BC always said.

In any case, BDE PM isn't such a bad gig. I am working in S3, though it seems like the S2 would be a better fit for the position, especially since I'm the ATO as well.

Return to “Military Police”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests