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MI and Branch Detail at OCS

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robmike
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MI and Branch Detail at OCS

Postby robmike Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:43 pm

Hello,

I realize this question has probably been asked before but due to the dynamic nature of the needs of the Army, I thought I would ask and see if anyone could weigh in with any current and definitive insight.

I've gathered that branches like Military Intelligence and Signal Corps do not have a large need for 2nd LTs and consequently, many of the MI or SC slots at OCS will carry a branch detail assignment to a combat arms branch.

How often is this the case? Essentially, if on branch day an OCS class had 10 MI slots or 10 SC slots, how many of those usually carry a branch detail assignment with them? Furthermore, is there any validity to the claim that USMA and ROTC claim the majority of MI and SC slots and that if an OCS class is lucky to have a couple, if any at all, they are very rarely slots that do not have a branch detail commitment? Finally, on average, how many MI or SC slots does the typical OCS class see on branch day?

I realize a couple of my questions may be difficult to quantify given that no OCS class is the same as the other, but any advice, tips, or other answers are very much appreciated.

Thank you.
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Lampen
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Re: MI and Branch Detail at OCS

Postby Lampen Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:23 am

Robmike,

I branched MI out of Class 14-12 and observed the branching for about 6 classes prior to that, but the nature of branch-detailing, both in terms of predictability and concentration, has not changed significantly.

You are correct on the need for lieutenants within the Military Intelligence And Signal Corps. The personnel structures for these require more captains and majors and thus have an inverted structure compared to the many of the other branches. Consequently MI and SC are commonly used as "donor branches" where lieutenants are utilized by another branch for their first four years and then revert to control under their basic branch (MI, SC, etc). From the MI perspective this is why we commonly refer to the Military Intelligence Captains Career Course(MICCC) as Basic Officer Leadership Course (BOLC) 2.0. The MI pure and MI detailed folks are basically taught from scratch (detailers go through a transition course just prior to the MICCC) throughout CCC.

As for the frequency of pure slots versus branch detailed slots it varies significantly from class to class and its not something you can predict. The only thing that really influences it is the sheer number of active duty candidates that make it to branching. The more you have the greater the overall branch allocation from Human Resources Command and the greater the probability of higher branch densities. This is all just a chance though.

Speaking from my experience my class had one of the higher allocations:

MI Pure: 5
SC Pure: 4
IN-MI: 3
AR-MI: 2
IN-SC: 4
AR-SC: 3

Like I said though it's impossible to know what the allocation is or will possibly be. All you will know is that if there are 45 active duty candidates there will be 45 active duty branch slots. There were classes with as few as 2 MI pure, 1 branch detail for each, etc. It's all a numbers game. HRC and Big Army want diversity in their officer corps so OCS isn't just given the leftovers from what USMA and ROTC have picked over, but they constitute the majority of the Army. The last statistics I saw for MI branch had OCS as the commissioning source for about 12% of the MI corps.

If you want to be competitive for one of those slots, especially the pure MI slots, you'll need to do well throughout OCS. They go quickly. Rarely do any persist after the first ten (usually less) selections. In my class three of them were already gone before branching. Myself, my roommate and another classmate submitted 4187s based upon past experience to request direct branching as MI officers. Of the 22 of that were submitted for those 3 slots ours were approved. Just for context all of us held multiple degrees (masters and above), spoke foreign languages (my roommate had the highest at five), and had letters of recommendation from Generals, ambassadors, former intelligence agency heads and so on.

The two remaining pure MI slots were selected by the #2 and #4 ranked people in the class.

What gave them their edge was that not only did they do well on academics (to with a few points of everyone else), but they crushed the PT test (our middle test was the only one that counted for us toward the OML). The PT test for us generated movements of up to 40 slots for some people. They were in the top ten and then were in the 50s because they couldn't run as fast or do as many pushups as others. If you want to give yourself a better chance at one of those pure MI or SC slots make sure you go to OCS in excellent shape.

As a note the SC slots tend to go a bit later than MI. They usually made it to the late teens to late 20s in selection.

If you have any MI questions please feel free to shoot me a PM. I'll be going to JMRC at Hohenfels tomorrow and won't be out of the box until mid-September so I might not be able to respond for a bit.
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robmike
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Postby robmike Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:24 pm

Lampen,

Thank you for the thorough response and answering all of my questions, you really cleared up a lot for me. It's definitely encouraging to hear you dispel the rumor that USMA and ROTC get the first crack at the slots and leave OCS the leftovers. Since its impossible to predict the amount of pure MI or SC slots available it seems the best thing to do is just show up and perform physically and academically to earn the slots.

Not to focus on the 500m target without even hitting the 25m, but I was wondering if anyone could clear up the process by which officers lengthen their time in service. It seems they don't follow the conventional reenlistment process that the enlisted personnel do and as my recruiter explained it, officers extend their time in service by 3 year increments by "accepting new orders". Can anyone clarify that officers can only extend time in service by periods of 3 years at a time by accepting new orders?

Thank you, and again, Lampen thank you in particular for all of your help.
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souspartacus
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Postby souspartacus Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:24 am

Lampen,
Not to focus on the 500m target without even hitting the 25m, but I was wondering if anyone could clear up the process by which officers lengthen their time in service. It seems they don't follow the conventional reenlistment process that the enlisted personnel do and as my recruiter explained it, officers extend their time in service by 3 year increments by "accepting new orders". Can anyone clarify that officers can only extend time in service by periods of 3 years at a time by accepting new orders?
Thank you, and again, Lampen thank you in particular for all of your help.
For Officer's there are no "new orders." After you complete your initial ADSO of 3 years you are essentially free to drop your paperwork and get out. You can incur additional ADSO's if you PCS's or attend school (that the Army pays for).
 "Luck favors the prepared."<br><div> </div><div><br></div><div>OCS- June 2010</div><div>OD BOLC- OCT 2010</div><div>MCO- MAR 2011-JAN 2012</div><div>MAINT PL -JAN 2012-AUG 2013</div><div>MAINT CO XO- AUG 2013-MAY 2014</div><div>CLCC- MAY 2014-NOV 2014</div><div>CSSB S3 OIC- JAN 2015-Jul 2016</div><div><br></div><div> </div>
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robmike
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Postby robmike Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:27 pm

Souspartacus,

Ok got it, thanks for clearing that up.
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robmike
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Postby robmike Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:51 am

Hello,

Sorry to trouble you gentlemen again but I had a question concerning the 4187 form that was mentioned in this thread. I was able to find out more about it in a topic from 2011 on this board, but was wondering if the 4187 form is still an option for candidates to submit once they're at OCS? If so, what sort of experience would make it most likely that the 4187 would be accepted and a MI or SC slot reserved? Are multiple degrees and high level recommendations such as Lampen mentioned required, or would work in an environment such as a think tank be enough?

Thank you
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Postby SeanSkelly Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:44 am

Hello,

Sorry to trouble you gentlemen again but I had a question concerning the 4187 form that was mentioned in this thread. I was able to find out more about it in a topic from 2011 on this board, but was wondering if the 4187 form is still an option for candidates to submit once they're at OCS? If so, what sort of experience would make it most likely that the 4187 would be accepted and a MI or SC slot reserved? Are multiple degrees and high level recommendations such as Lampen mentioned required, or would work in an environment such as a think tank be enough?

Thank you
I just commissioned from ACo 007-16 and we had three pure MI slots. At least six People put in 4187 and only one was given a pure slot he had the highest academic average in our class was fluent with a dlpt in mandarin and studied the proper courses in college that would make him ideal for MI. Signal was a similar case I think four pure (I honestly forget exact numbers) two or three with 4187 who had extensive signal background prior service were selected. I know one in bravo who was a friend of mine who had a 4187 selected for signal. The same is for cyber four put in packets two were selected. One due to background the other because of TS

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